In some species of nature, females dominate. I wouldn’t want to mess with a momma bear with a cub, that’s for sure. However, humans have for a long time had the idea that women were the “more frail” sex and, at least in public life, they were expected to stay in the background. The men on the other hand were expected to be the primary breadwinners and to provide for their families. Modernity, however, has been throwing this stereotype on its head. We’ve all known or heard of a couple where the mom is a high-powered successful career woman while the dad stays at home with the kids, or couples where the woman is absolutely loaded and becomes the “suga mama”, and even couples where the man simply makes significantly less than his female partner.
I’ve always been fascinated by these sorts of relationships. I’ve always felt that any relationship between two partners should be more or less balanced in all respects, and not only monetarily: if one partner earns more money, the other partner can always contribute in their own way. A companionship where the two partners diverge greatly can still work, but a big disparity can cause issues, especially for men used to the idea of being the primary breadwinner.
The cultural dilemma
This isn’t the 1950s anymore, and at least in the more civilized countries around the world, women and men have become more or less equal both legally and morally speaking. I think this is a great development, because women are so good to us men and we are all human, so it’s only fair for all of us to have the same rights. Nonetheless, men still act like they’re from Mars and women like they’re from Venus. We perceive the world differently, and we’re built differently. There is nothing sexist or unfair about this (well, my girlfriend might disagree about the unfairness of how only women go through “that time of the month”); it’s simply the way things are.
Likewise, even though we’re all equal now, traditional roles still exist, and this can be seen in dating. This is less common than it was before, but I believe that many men still believe in paying for the first date, showing special attention to her needs and emotions, and in small gestures such as holding the car door open for her. Even today, chivalry can still go a long way. Many women that I know don’t see this as sexist, but actually like this and appreciate it, and I’m not so sure it helps when a guy pretends not to see the bill. Women today are the equals of men and are stronger than ever, but many still appreciate the small gestures and we still have some traditional ideas of the roles that men and women play. After all, how strange would it look to see the woman putting her jacket on a guy and walking over to hold the car door open for him?
Many men also feel that they should be the provider for their family, and that the kids will benefit from a mom that doesn’t have to work as hard so she has the time and energy to care for the kids. The dream of many men is to earn enough income so that their wife doesn’t have to. When the woman instead earns enough money so that the man doesn’t have to, this cultural expectation gets turned on its head.
Is it all relative?
Do people get bothered in general by large disparities in income between partners? Maybe it depends on how much both partners are making. Take the following scenarios as an example:
One person doesn’t work; the second makes an income of $35,000
One person makes $25,000, the second makes $50,000.
One person makes $50,000, the second makes $100,000.
One person makes $250,000, the second makes $500,000.
One person makes $25 million, the second makes $50 million.
Now I can imagine that there could always be a feeling of imbalance when one partner makes double what the other partner makes, but I think the person making $25,000 compared to the partner making $50,000 will feel that much more inadequate, simply because when the level of income is in that range it has a very real impact on the basic material needs of the couple. It could mean the difference between living a “so-so” lifestyle and living a more comfortable lifestyle. One partner may feel significantly constrained by the other. People with higher levels of income can afford even a luxurious level of material comfort rather easily, so there will be less of this type of contention as absolute income rises.
The reverse situation
Although men can get uncomfortable by the idea of no longer being the primary breadwinner, how do women feel when the man “makes the bacon” and then expects the woman to spend her day cooking and cleaning and that she “owes” it to him because he’s the one making money and she isn’t? Is money really the only way that someone can contribute to a household?
Asking the reader
In my relationship, things are pretty balanced. We both come from different backgrounds and culture, but we also have similar values and want many of the same things out of life. We make similar salaries and we’re both at a similar position in life in age, education, and experience. We both agree in the value of saving, although she’s more of a fan of coupons than I am. It’s good now, but maybe it would feel a little odd if she were an executive and made a salary double or triple mine.
How about you? How do you feel about the idea of relationships where one makes significantly more than the other, regardless of if it’s the man or the woman? Is this an issue that affects only men? I imagine that many women are driven these days and feel that they deserve to earn at least as much as their fellow man if not more, and I don’t disagree with them. How would these women feel if their man made more than them and expected them to stay at home and take care of all the chores and that it was their “duty” to do so?
I believe that there are innate biological roles for men and women, but I also think that we should always be free to choose the type of relationship we want to be in and that while each partner should contribute equally, this contribution is not limited to the money one brings home by paycheck. In fact, if all a guy does is bring home a paycheck and they never spend time with their kids and act like a big man simply because they work hard, they did a pretty bad job in my opinion. In my eyes, the driven career woman is completely fine, although it does mean that gender roles are no longer traditionally defined and we need to question the roles that a man and woman should play in a relationship and as part of a family.
So, reader, what are your thoughts? I’d love to hear what you think.
If we could afford it I think I would stay home. We likely COULD afford it but we would have a lifestyle and life planning change we do not want to make. That being said, if Mrs. SPF made say double what she does not (which is not equal to our current take home) we’d entertain the idea for sure.
Interesting! If I had enough going on on the side then I could entertain the notion of staying at home, too, but in a way I also like the feeling of going into work every day, too. Maybe it’s cause I live in a condo and a small space can feel a bit confining if you’re there the whole day.
Hilighted this article in our weekend reading – you’re back Kev!
Regardless, we’ll see how things play out. We both have those “gold plated” pensions – thing is, if those disappear (we’re 20+ yrs out) we cant rely on this “security”.
Thanks, SPF! Neither of us has any pension to speak of and I’m not going to place any bets on what’s going to come in 40 years from now so that’s why we’re living more frugally for now and hoping to build up side income. Reducing expenses and increasing income… that’s what we can try to control with the goal of achieving financial independence sooner rather than later. If we get there with her making double the income of me… it’s fine, but it’ll be better if we both make double haha.
I think it’s a very complicated idea. I like saying that I want equality yet I hold the door open and I generally pay for everything. I enjoy doing these things but it would feel awkward if my girlfriend were to do this for me. I’m hoping that as a society we start to move to a more balanced arrangement between the sexes and the feeling of awkardness eventually leaves.
-Ravi Gupta
It’s true; we’ve come a long way in achieving legal equality but culturally speaking, we have different expectations and behaviors. Some of it is social, but some of it is likely biological in nature.
Both parties should be working!
This is what my girlfriend’s parents did, and they still did a great job and had time to spend with them. The downside is that there were times her mom was under a lot of stress and was sick, but they’re doing great nowadays.
I have no problem with my wife earning more than me, however I could never just stay home. Too much is wrapped up in me doing something that I find stimulating and fulfilling. When my children were young my wife worked part time and I took care of them for nearly 30 hours a week. I still had a day job that I enjoyed!
I think I would be too bored just staying at home, too, and besides I get distracted very easily. I’m not sure I would get nearly as much done. On the other hand, it would be a lot of fun having all that time to spend to play with the kids.
Interesting post. I really see no problem with two people earning the same amount of money, if they work in different sectors. However, if the man and the woman both work in the same sector, I could see machismo becoming a problem. Say a man and a wife are both investment bankers ( an industry somewhat dominated by men) and the woman in the relationship makes more than here husband. I have a feeling this wouldn’t translate into a positive relationship.
Yeah that’s a pretty good point! The competitive aspect comes more into play if both are working in a similar line of work.
I have earned about twice as much as my wife for 10+ years. I think it’s time she steps up contribution so I can be a stay at home dad! 🙂
We have to cut back a lot, but I’m pretty sure we can live on the Mrs’ salary alone. We’ll try for 3 months and see if it works out. Probably still a little short.
Yep will be interesting to see! The good thing about today is that the person who stays at home can build up something on the side if they want to. They’re not forced to just watch soap operas all day.
oh man i’d love to take the kids golfing with me all day, maybe hire a nanny and get a couple carts to drive around the course 🙂 on a serious note, the man has always (or at least is expected to) carried the household in the history of mankind, with a few exceptions. i think that is the general expectation / perception. today, i think we have come far enough both in thought and practice that it doesn’t really matter who does what, does it?
I think it’s the general expectation/perception but it’s also coming against the reality that many women these days make as much or more than their fellow man. If both partners have relatively the same level of education and experience then it could happen at least half of the time. The challenge is in how the man feels about it, and later down Andrew brought up a pretty good point: How does the woman feel about her man making less than her! Haha…
Interesting article. If a woman earns more than a man, the man has to be pretty secure in himself and contribute in other ways. The bottom line is a partnership, that’s why you’re married right?
I agree, it’s a partnership, but we’re all human and I think that humans are naturally competitive in a social context even with their significant other. The thing is that it can be a good competition, because if your wife or husband makes more than you, it benefits you too, right?
Great point about being naturally competitive. True if the wife makes more the husband does benefit. Maybe the big loser is the male ego?
Probably. 😛
Hold on there. Grass is greener on the other side. My wife has made at least twice of what i have since we got married. It sucks! Not at all where i want to be, ask her for money, try to discuss debt free financing, going on vacation a night out, a little intimate time.
No she makes the money and end of story, go change the kids diapers. It is incredibly immasculating and kicks the ego in the boys, if this is the life that you want you can have it, i would rather live in a trailer with someone who loves me than in the 5k sf house in smugville with someone who only wants a butler and maybe maybe once a quarter stud.
Oof. I’m sorry to hear that; nobody should have to live like that, whether man, woman, making small bucks or big! What can you do to make things better and improve that situation?
My sister makes more than her husband, and they’ve got a couple of twins on the way. As far as I know, he’s going to be a stay-at-home dad!
Also, my wife is very career-focused. I wouldn’t be surprised if she would make more money than me someday. I’d like to think that she would pull back on the reigns if we have children though. I do not want our kids in daycare….
Yeah I agree about daycare, especially here where it’s socialized and rationed, and in the end, it actually only benefits rich people; yeah, it’s retarded. I’ve seen how the workers are and I never want my kids to be with them all day. At that point I guess we’ll see which way makes more sense: for her to stay home or for me. It doesn’t really matter so long as the decision is optimal for both of us.
Interesting topic, for which I often enjoy getting people’s thoughts.
In terms of a situation where a wife makes more than her husband, many folks wonder how the man will handle it. Will it bruise his ego? For some yes, for some no. Personally, while I have a bit of the old fashioned thought process on some things, the modern viewpoint is more influential to me. Thinking rationally, when I balance it all out, it really shouldn’t matter who makes more. At least to me, anyway. Be a team – one for all, all for one. Most of us are able to work and make money, so why automatically set up pre-defined responsibilities; rather, do what works for each person and the couple as a unit.
Another question, the opposite of that, is how the woman feels that her husband makes less money than her? I wonder how many women would actually be secretly turned off by making more than her guy. It’s a side of things that isn’t often discussed, but it might be an unexplored topic in terms of real, honest answers.
Could I theoretically be a stay at home dad? Well, do love kids and could probably do it…but would have to be doing something somewhat ambitious/achievement oriented at home, related to bringing in resources. There’s wiring there, or maybe super strong socialization, that would get me to want to do something while at home. My own side hustles, consulting, etc. But more time with children is a great thing.
I love the part about how the woman could be secretly turned off — it can really cut both ways! I agree with your comment and it’s true; in a team each member can find their optimal way. It can be different from couple to couple and doesn’t have to follow a stereotype.
Interesting article Kevin, I don’t mind it at all if my wife beats me on the salary scale. No one owes anything to anyone in a relationship, there should be a common understanding on how to carry the responsibilities of life before one jumps into living together. When 2 people get married, they become one person so it becomes a collaborator effort, if one wins the other automatically wins as well…that’s how I look at it anyways.
Great thoughts, Mich. They do become one person in a sense, but also gotta be aware of personal boundaries since we are still individuals. Just gotta remember that what helps the other partner helps us, too, and it’s a friendly competition. 🙂
My husband and I both work, but a lot of the household duties still end up landing on me. Partially because he works longer hours than I do, and partially because I am a control freak about house things (guilty).
It would be interesting to see if we could handle a true role reversal, where my husband tended to the house and cooked all the meals and I focused solely on work. In our case, I don’t think it would happen. I’m just so used to doing the cooking and the cleaning and wiping the runny noses anyways, I would most likely fall into double duty. I might even feel guilty if I didn’t take those things on when I got home. I guess you never know until you try it though, eh?
If I was the one staying at home I would want something to do on the side, especially since the kids go to school after a few years anyways. Also, I think it’s good if both partners has a taste of what the other partner’s life is like — if only one partner takes care of most of the domestic stuff and only one partner works, then they might have a harder time understanding each other.
Kevin, I like your balanced approach. I think it’s really important for each family to decide what works for them…. but it needs to be fair. The key is, what’s fair for one may not work for another. Thought provoking article.
I agree, Barb! There are cultural expectations but no hard rules, and what works for one may not work for another, and vice versa!
Great post Kevin!
Single guys out there might get a kick out of this. I was reading an article about on line dating services in Singapore. The women who hardly got any “hits” were those that made too much money. Who would have thought? I figured that many guys would have loved to have had a life like Scott Fisher’s. He was the guy who climbed mountains all over the world while his wife flew Jumbo Jets, brought in the bacon, and he’d get to perpetually hook up with her in exotic locales. But Fisher went one exotic locale too far, and he hasn’t come home. He sits on a ledge, not far from Everest’s summit, just below Rob Hall.
I did find it interesting that most Singaporean based men wouldn’t want a woman who made more money than them. What about you? Would that bother you?
Incidentally, my brother is “stay at home dad” and his wife brings home the money. That said, his job (looking after 3 high-energy kids) is probably a lot harder than hers!
I guess most men are a little intimidated by a woman that makes a lot more than them, or maybe they feel that the woman will look down on them since they make less than her! For many men this simply feels strange; perhaps not as strange as it would have 30 years ago but strange nonetheless.
You might find this interesting. I mentioned Kevin’s post to my class of English 10 students, about an hour ago. Most of them are American. I just asked how they feel about the woman making more money than the man, in a relationship.
This is the new generation we’re talking about. Here were the responses:
From girls: “I think it’s funny.”
From guys: “I wouldn’t want my wife making more than me”
There were variations and personal deviations from this, of course. But these were the prevailingly dominant views.
Haha, I guess it’s to be expected! Andrew, I’ve heard that in Asian families, although it is more common for the man/woman to take “traditional” roles with the guy working 50-60 hours a week, it is actually the woman that is in complete control and is the boss of the house. Is it like that out in Singapore?
There are still way more stay at home moms than dads but things are changing and I think that’s great. Every couple has to figure out what works best for them and unfortunately money has a big part in that. With the crazy cost of childcare so many parents both have to work which makes me sad. Couples that can afford to have one parent stay at home are lucky regardless if it’s the mom or the dad. My husband makes more than me now, but even if he didn’t I’d still want to be at home if we had kids b/c I want to be as involved as possible and lucky for me he’s supportive of that. -Sydney
Yep both partners need to work together as a team to do what’s best for them and their kids! Daycare is really cheap here, but there’s a waiting list of years, and the quality is abysmal. I never want to put my kids through that.
My husband and I are pretty evenly matched in a lot of areas and I like it that way. We’ve always been within a few thousand of each other salary wise (sometimes he made a little more sometimes I did…depended on raises/promotions). We’d joke about who was the breadwinner that year. He loves it and could care less about the money as long as I didn’t earn it at the expense of our family and personal life. There are some jobs that are just too demanding and are not worth the money. I’ve had these jobs and thankfully they were before kids.
In college I dated a guy who stated very proudly that once he has kids his wife is going to be a stay at home mom. My instantaneous reaction was “I guess I’ll never be your wife.” I think any model can work fine as long as one person isn’t being forced into a position they are not comfortable with. I mean at the time, I was spending a fortune getting educated and it just sat wrong with me that I wouldn’t be able to use my education with certain types of guys. He thought he was being the big strong man, being the provider and was confused why someone would see his statement as anything but positive. People who are too traditional in their thinking drive me a little nuts. There is more than one way to live life. Being a SAHM is fine, but not if it’s mandated by the husband.
or vice versa
I completely agree, Sandy. Both partners have to work together to get to the arrangement that works out best for them and the kids. One partner shouldn’t be “forcing” the other partner to do anything without bucking up themselves, since kids are a shared responsibility!
I’ve lived on both sides of that fence, shortly after I met my future wife I changed careers and had to start at the bottom to some respect, while she was on the rise and made double my salary. We then had kids and she stayed home for 7 years, only to return to school (very expensive when you’ve also got kids!!) and she is now starting over and is now making 1/3rd of what I earn…..I am sure this will even out once again.
I would like to say it’s all been peaches and cream and doesn’t make a difference but if I am honest I have always felt I have a responsibility to support my family regardless of what my wife is up to and I found it hard earning less. At the same time there have been times where I have felt I am making sacrafices that perhaps were not fully appreciated and I have questioned our roles in our relationship more than once. But that is why comunication is the key to a relationship, not money.
I would also say that I had always imagined that me working and her taking care of the kids would provide perfect balance, everything would be taken care of and we’d both have time to focus on our responsibilities but in fact I found we were completly unbalanced, when I came home I was still a parent with loads of new responsibilities and she was missing out on some of those outlets that a workplace can provide.
Life is a jounery……think long term and keep talking!
Interesting thoughts, J. I feel that if each partner stays too much to their own sphere then it might be harder for them to understand each other. Even if the wife stays at home, it’s good if she works part-time, and it’s also good if the husband takes care of some of the “wifey” things. It’s something I’ll want to watch out for myself going forward; you’re right, communication is the key!
I guess the most important thing is that the arrangement is mutual and voluntary. If the wife sees the husband as nothing more than a source of cash then problems can begin, just like if the husband sees the wife as nothing more than a maid.
Forget marriage, it’s hard enough just to date when you make more than your significant other. I imagine it will be even worse once the finances are combined in marriage.
Actually I think dating might be worse; when I was dating my girlfriend in the beginning I was a poor student, and she was a much wealthier student, haha. It led to some conflicts. Then after graduating I landed a decent job and I quickly caught up to her, and she recently got promoted so she’s a little bit higher again; the game continues! ;), but the difference now is that we live together and we are more of a team. In the beginning you don’t necessarily see things that way and you look at the potential other partner and see if they will be a contributer or a burden.
Mrs. 101 being a stay-at-home-mom was mandated more by geography than anything else: after we got married we lived in Saudi Arabia, where women are not allowed by law to work outside the home. It worked out OK over the years, but I wouldn’t mind if the roles were reversed. I know a couple of guys where their wife makes more (significantly more, in one case), and it doesn’t seem that big an issue. Not that working inside the home is any less demanding, in some ways it’s tougher to get motivated and work through the daily tasks.
True, I think much of the time I’d prefer work over some house chores.
My girlfriend would probably never be up for SA even though it’s really good money, but I wouldn’t mind going to another part of the world sometime. It’s pretty cool that you get to see so much in your line of work. I feel there’s so much that I haven’t seen but we both have good jobs here and a home so right now I explore in my vacation time, though she does have occasional business trips with her line of work to far-off destinations which is pretty interesting.
I would LOVE it if she made 2X me. Sugar mamas, or sugar spouses are nice, so long as you are making enough money for yourself to live a great life. What’s the income oneself? Guess it depends where you live.
My belief has been that $200,000/person is the ideal income for maximum happiness, where making more brings no more.
Sam
That’s true Sam, I think at a certain point when you can hit all of your material comforts quite easily then it doesn’t really matter too much if you’re already living a great life. Money and money differences matter more when it makes a big difference in material comfort, which depends on where you live but over here there’s a huge difference between $30,000 and $60,000 but much less between $60,000 and $120,000, especially with the “progressive” tax.
I don’t think there’s any caps though. If you had an income of $200 million with all that you could do with it I bet you’d be at least a bit more satisfied than you are now. 😉
When we were both working full time, he earned a bit more than I, but not all that much.
Now I am working half time and have opened my own business which is not paying yet (but it will!), so he makes much more, but it hasn’t been an issue so far.
We are expecting our first (probably only) child in the fall, and I’m hoping he’ll retire to be a stay-at-home dad (he’s a teacher and has enough years to retire). Either my business will need to bring in some bucks or I’ll need to go back to full-time work, but that would be OK in exchange for having Dad at home with The Kid.
I guess the kid’s arrived now? A big congrats in advance. 🙂
How’s things looking now?
What a significant article, Kevin! Lately, society has learned to accept that the number of women breadwinners in the family has grown by leaps and bounds. Is this not what the women asked for to begin with? Have a successful career and be treated as equals with men? Honestly, if I could breastfeed our baby, I would. Unfortunately, my gender prevents me from doing so. Providing for the family is not limited to financial only. What’s the point of bringing home the bacon if the home is not kept well to begin with? Both man and woman can play dual roles. What matters is that the family is provided for and not who does more than the other. I like First Gen American’s comment on enjoying the fact that she is evenly matched with her husband. Both should aspire to exert as much effort to contribute, regardless of the outcome.
My own girlfriend might be a partial breadwinner for some time soon. 😛 I agree that we can play dual roles and aspire to be the best that we can be.
I am kind of happy and proud for my wife since she’s doing great in her job and earning more. I have known her to be an achiever and I am used to it. Like Kevin, I also think its better that we both earn double, it would be a big help.
My girlfriend is also doing well and she had recently surpassed me, if only by an eensy weensy amount. I am happy for her and she still has a lot of potential ahead.
In a case where the woman is the breadwinner and the man earns less, I believe she would expect him to take over the duties of the home more. It would be her expectation that he clean the house and cook most of the time. If he didn’t, the couple would likely argue. They would go through a rough adjustment period for awhile. The woman would still feel that the man should be the breadwinner. It could cause resentment. He might feel disrespected it and she might become more bossy with him. There would have to be an adjustment psychologically of the cultural norms.